Curse

kumarshah · Mar 05, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Stats:
Swordsmanship: 12+3
Strength: 11+1 (through Helm)
Tactics: 4+1

Currently I have Platemail armor. I am looking forward to getting my 15k glads next, so suggest any combination of runes I should apply to that armor that should prove best for PvE use.

Skill Bar:
[skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Standing Slash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]Galrath Slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

The idea is to start Enraging Charge and let it build upto Flail. Get Standing Slash charged up and try to keep all the attack skills charged (along with Lion's Comfort for healing) through the use of Sun and Moon Slash and Dragon Slash (Hasn't always worked till now).

The main thing is, this is the first time after I started playing the game that I am using Lion's Comform for healing rather than Healing Signet. I have used this build only for a little time till now as I just capped Dragon, and wanted to know how you guys feel about it?

Suggestions, comments, criticisms welcome.

Katari · Mar 05, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

You'd be better off with:
12+3+1 Sword
12+1 Strength
rest in tactics

That looks like a fine sword build for an area not heavily populated by bleedable monsters, but generally I'd use Sever/Gash in place of Standing/Galrath, because deep wound is just that good.

LightningHell · Mar 05, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I don't think you have the total 200 attribute points...the correct split, if it's 12/11, would be 12/11/6, not 12/11/4.

And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge.

kumarshah · Mar 05, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I haven't gotten the final 15 extra attribute points yet.

kazjun · Mar 05, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

It's nice enough, though if you're going adren dps its probably useful to fit "For great Justice" in. Maybe drop one of the attacks...

Katari · Mar 05, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I don't think you have the total 200 attribute points...the correct split, if it's 12/11, would be 12/11/6, not 12/11/4.

And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge.

Oh, good point, I had forgotten that Lion's gets a greater return for points in tactics than in strength. The spread you listed would be better then.

RoadKill97 · Mar 05, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Sun and Moon Slash --> "For Great Justice!"
Lion's Comfort --> Distracting Blow or "Watch Yourself!"
Resurrection Signet --> Sunspear Rebirth Signet

The extra adrenaline gain from FGJ will allow you to use your attack skills far more often, and thus benefit more than an extra attack.

For a warrior self-heal such as Lion's Comfort or Healing Signet is largely useless in general PvE because you can rely on your teammates to keep you alive.

Distracting Blow is great for interrupting monsters' self-heals, annoying hexes (Visions of Regret, anyone?), and perhaps the most importantly, the overpowered AoE nukes, from bosses especially. I would never go without DB under normal circumstances, tbh.

Having extra ~20 al on all party members from WY is nothing to sneeze at. "Watch Yourself!" is quite easy to keep up all the time thanks to Dragon Slash.

You should do your last attribute quest A.S.A.P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

That looks like a fine sword build for an area not heavily populated by bleedable monsters, but generally I'd use Sever/Gash in place of Standing/Galrath, because deep wound is just that good.

Deep Wound is good, but not good enough to waste two skill slots for it. As enemies usually die in 2-7 seconds under attack, I find it difficult to hit the combo before the monster drops, unless both Sever and Gash were already charged before attacking that foe. And against stronger foes... well, armor ignoring damage is just that good.

Katari · Mar 05, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Adding sever, to allow the use of Gash, which does the equivlent of ~120 armor ignoring damage is bad idea? Against fleshy targets it is strictly superior.

RoadKill97 · Mar 05, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Adding sever, to allow the use of Gash, which does the equivlent of ~120 armor ignoring damage is bad idea? Against fleshy targets it is strictly superior.

120 is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough.

I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options.

qvtkc · Mar 05, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

120 is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough.

I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options.

First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build, then you say that deep wound is useless. Why listen to you?

clawofcrimson · Mar 05, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

great build with an axe warrior to parter with

RoadKill97 · Mar 05, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build, then you say that deep wound is useless. Why listen to you?

First, this is for PvE. Sun and Moon Slash does not deal much damage against high al targets. Go hit dummies, please. Remember that monsters have more damage reduction if they are higher level than 20.

And secondly, I said nowhere that deep wound is useless.

kumarshah · Mar 05, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Sun and Moon Slash is in there for the adrenaline gain from two strikes and damage output is still decent enough.

I see the point in FGJ, but once it ends and between the time it takes to recharge it I have seen it can get difficult to keep the attack skills up, while Sun and Moon Slash helps me with that.

I keep a self-heal as I never know when I will need it. I love Watch Yourself! too

Cathode_Reborn · Mar 06, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

First, this is for PvE. Sun and Moon Slash does not deal much damage against high al targets. Go hit dummies, please. Remember that monsters have more damage reduction if they are higher level than 20.

That's the main reason I rarely use my war in pve. They get really screwed over when the lvl24+ enemies start appearing. Your damage output starts to get very low. Warriors can do huge amounts of damage against squishies, but sometimes they can't do much against those stupid monsters that anet puts in pve. Even a few lvl20 enemies have really high armor.

qvtkc · Mar 06, 2007, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

First, this is for PvE. Sun and Moon Slash does not deal much damage against high al targets. Go hit dummies, please. Remember that monsters have more damage reduction if they are higher level than 20.

I have hit dummies. I have hit level 20+ mobs too. If I use Sun & Moon, while under FGJ, 50% of swings will be Dragon Slash. This allows me to let my other two attack skills be Sever Artery and Gash. No need for anything else since you can use an attack skill on every swing.

My point is that you should switch in For Great Justice, but not switch out Sun and Moon Slash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

And secondly, I said nowhere that deep wound is useless.

No, but you said that it "is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough."

In the majority of cases you can use a certain attack skill twice, maybe thrice or if you are (un)lucky, four times on a certain enemy before that enemy dies. In that case, a deep wound-causing skill is a great choice because it does more damage than two uses of a +42 attack.
In the minority of cases, the enemy will live long enough for the other effect of deep wound to be worthwhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep Wound

Condition. While suffering from this injury, your maximum Health is reduced by 20% and you receive less benefit from healing.

RoadKill97 · Mar 06, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

The thing is that you have four attack skills. And then you also need FGJ, Flail, and Enraging Charge to make best use of your attacks. The last and the least is the resurrection skill. This all leaves you zero room for utility. For example, the combination of Dragon, Galrath, and Silverwing Slashes deals more armor ignoring damage and is only three attacks. There are no normal attacks in the chain after you get it going. Each attack also works independently, unlike Sever and Gash.

Now, if you have hit dummies like you said, then you should now that you could replace Sun and Moon with Standing/Galrath/Silverwing. This gives 1.5 strikes less adrenaline (under FGJ) and about 25 more damage against high al enemies. I don't care about low al enemies, they drop fast enough in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

In the majority of cases you can use a certain attack skill twice, maybe thrice or if you are (un)lucky, four times on a certain enemy before that enemy dies.

In the majority of cases I cannot use attack skills even twice, unless those skills were already charged before attacking the foe. This is why I prefer independent skills instead of SA + Gash. I feel that I can't get enough use of Gash to make them worth of having.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

In that case, a deep wound-causing skill is a great choice because it does more damage than two uses of a +42 attack.

Yes, a skill causing deep wound is great. Note that you have two skills for only the deep wound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

In the minority of cases, the enemy will live long enough for the other effect of deep wound to be worthwhile.

I know the effects of the deep wound but I prefer to use Distracting Blow so they get zero healing. Of course you could say that other enemy might heal the target, but in very, very few cases enemies are competent healers, and in those cases, I take those enemies down first.

GourangaPizza · Mar 06, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

IMO I would replace Standing Slash with Silverwing Slash for unconditional high damage output. I prefer the "Galrath -> Silverwing -> Dragon" combo than the "Sun & Moon -> Dragon" combo, especially with Flail and FGH up. High damage output is guranteed.

Katari · Mar 06, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

If I wasn't going to use sever/gash on a sword build, I'd go straight to axes. It isn't hard to grab the 4a for Sever so it isn't all too much of a problem if I somehow have gash, but not sever charged.

qvtkc · Mar 06, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

The thing is that you have four attack skills. And then you also need FGJ, Flail, and Enraging Charge to make best use of your attacks. The last and the least is the resurrection skill. This all leaves you zero room for utility. For example, the combination of Dragon, Galrath, and Silverwing Slashes deals more armor ignoring damage and is only three attacks. There are no normal attacks in the chain after you get it going. Each attack also works independently, unlike Sever and Gash.

No, it doesn't deal more damage. Dragon + Galrath + Silverwing deals less armor-ignoring damage than Dragon + Gash.
And no, I have utility, usually Watch Yourself (Koss pwns me at Distracting Blow anyway, so no use). I don't use Enraging Charge, sorry but Flail doesn't really need a cancel in PvE...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

In the majority of cases I cannot use attack skills even twice, unless those skills were already charged before attacking the foe. This is why I prefer independent skills instead of SA + Gash. I feel that I can't get enough use of Gash to make them worth of having.

In the majority of cases you fight not one, but several enemies, after the first one your attacks will be pretty much kept charged by Dragon Slash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadKill97

I know the effects of the deep wound but I prefer to use Distracting Blow so they get zero healing. Of course you could say that other enemy might heal the target, but in very, very few cases enemies are competent healers, and in those cases, I take those enemies down first.

I prefer Spinal Shivers. Of course you could say hex removal, but that tends to be done by the same healers that are targeted first, as you say.

jesh · Mar 07, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

In that case, a deep wound-causing skill is a great choice because it does more damage than two uses of a +42 attack.

42*2= 84 armor ignoring damage
480*.2= 96 armor ignoring damage on most targets, plus 21ish from Gash

Deep Wound is capped at 100 damage regardless of target's total HP.
This means:

On enemies that will die in short amounts of time, Deep Wound is a better deal. It speeds their death further and limits healing.
On harder to kill targets, DW is probably not such a great choice. 3 attack skills hitting for +42/+43 will give you more damage than a Sever->Gash chain.
Usually I'll run DW on a warrior, as no one else ever bothers to bring it.